A few days ago I received a copy of a mail from an unsatisfied user who couldn’t install Gentoo/AMD64 on his box:
I recently purchased Gentoo Linux 2005.0 for Amd 64, and i’m having a real
hard time just installing it. To me it seems to be impossible to install,
just using an text-based environment, even though i’ve been doing computers
for about 12 years.
He told us that he feels cheated because the copy he purchased is too cheap to send it back. I feel sorry for him. The only, cold comfort is that he didn’t loose much money.
Then followed a little rant that made me pretty thoughtful the last days:
The real reason why people don’t use these kind of operating-systems is
that it’s impossible to install without a phd. And there is no support to
help you, what so ever. I have tried many linux versions, but they are all
the same. So from now on, i will probably never try anything that isn’t
made by microsoft. And that is a shame. Cause we all know how horriffic
windows is.
I really wish you could have made Gentoo for people that does’nt have 2
years to learn how to install it before they can use it.
Too bad.
Is Linux still in an experimental stage? What about the support? How could we improve?
Looking at our handbooks, mailing lists, irc channels, forums, wikis, bugzilla etc. I think you get much more support with a Linux system than with a commercial one, at least as end user. Gentoo currently has about 312 more or less active developers, and I don’t like the thought that only one had to sit on a hotline ($3.12 per minute/first 10min free), but that’s what some people obviously call support. We have lots of great users that spend a lot of their free and rare time to help other users. Why don’t they get credit? Just because they are users and not developers? They help us making Gentoo a better distribution.
In this spirit I’d like to thank all the users who help us every day even when I break the tree 😉
I really wish you could have made Gentoo for people that does’nt have 2
years to learn how to install it before they can use it.
This probably will change in future, when GLI will be out.
I really like the GLI project and the idea of automate another step. Nevertheless I feel queasy whenever I think of such users that ask for “support”. Will they support other users afterwards? Will they help fixing bugs? Or will they just prevent developers from fixing bugs for those who provide support?
In my view – as a project grows, the more people will like it – and in the same way – many more people are going to dislike it. Look at what happened with the flamewar between Tanenbaum and Torvalds and so on. I’m not particularly concerned about these guys – they come with wrong expectations and get disappointed and start to ->whine
In my view – as a project grows, the more people will like it – and in the same way – many more people are going to dislike it. Look at what happened with the flamewar between Tanenbaum and Torvalds and so on. I’m not particularly concerned about these guys – they come with wrong expectations and get disappointed and start to whine. This guy didn’t tell us what the problem is. This guy obviously didn’t even look on what kind of support we do provide. He didn’t find what he expected and starts to scream. Saying that every linux-distro is the same just tells me how much he knows about other distros.
And no – they’ll probably not help us fix bugs. The only help I can expect from these guys is some publicity – like telling a friend “Hey, I’ve just installed something really cool. You gotta see that!”. And that’s something invaluable a big succesful distro needs too.
I also look on to the other side… how many people said: Windows doesn’t work: I just tried this and it wouldn’t do it. Most of the time, it’s the user who did something wrong, not the OS (Even if that particular OS might be a little different there, but that’s not the poing). How much bad publicity does MS get for someting, they are not guilty of?
Just a few thoughts 😉
A PhD to install these things? Gimme a break! I started using Linux when I was a freshman in HIGH SCHOOL, with Slackware and like kernel 2.0.29. Linux has come so far since then, it is amazing.
This guy is just a moron, he’d probably have trouble installing ANY software.
Here’s what I’d reply with:
“””
There is an IRC client on the livecd with which you can connect to the #gentoo IRC channel and people should be willing to help you. Also, there are mailing lists, web forums, wikis, et cetera. A complete and concise handbook is also provided on http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook. The statement that support in Gentoo is non-existant is simply false.
As for the way Gentoo is installed — this gives users a lot of flexibility and saves developer resources on working on an installer. However, many distributions do provide an installer and are very user friendly as well as free. You could try Fedora, or Ubuntu for example.
“””
I must admit I feel sorry for him too, but he is seems just a little bit disgruntled with the way things are, and is probably overreacting after a bad experience.
Installing without the installation handbook is of course very, very difficult if not impossible – especially for those not entirely familiar with Linux and Gentoo in particular.
With the handbook I’ve always found it pretty easy. It’s certainly not for novices though – and I’m not sure that much effort should really be put into making it so. Let other distributions concentrate on that and do it well, let Gentoo concentrate on being Gentoo, and do it exceptionally.
I say, just make Ubuntu the official “brother distro” and redirect all handholding development to them.
Or… we could spawn an Ubuntu inspired distro based on portage… that could be something… this way both projects could share development efforts.
I think Gentoo provides a wealth of ‘support’ options, probably more so than any other distribution and is one of the reason I settled on it.
The ‘problem’, if it is one, is that Windows users have it so easy. Insert disk, answer a couple of questions (with lots of help) and viola you have a ‘working’ operating system. I quote ‘working’ because they are lulled into a false sense of security that everything is working etc.
The problem with Gentoo (and Linux) ‘support’ is the fact that there are so many choices to make and channels to follow that it is exceedingly difficult for newbies, especially users brought up on Microsoft to find the ‘right’ path.
Maybe Gentoo and Linux users have too much choice?
Z
I have to agree w/ Matt. Let other distros make things super-easy. And there’s always to some extent a feedback loop between different ways of approach. Automation plays a different role (and more interesting one to many) in Gentoo than in Ubuntu for example, but thinking about automation as such and its ways of being implemented informs and inspires diverse development efforts. Those of us who like to take things apart to see how they work will always be more at home with a Gentoo than a Linspire.
you can never please ’em all i guess.
Out of the 6 times I have tried installing Gentoo, Each and every one have failed.. miserably, I have followed the support handbook to a T, but then comes this happy little thing called USE flags.. i then procede to pick every little flag i want and i begin to compile.. then low and behold INTALLATION FAILED!! oh its no surprise to me anymore, as it is expected, I now only use gentoo after i have slit my wrists and neck to add to the pain