Josh Saddler - Latest comments on the FUBAR is killing me

In response to: the FUBAR is killing me

Jeff Rollin [Visitor] — Thu, 15 Mar 2007 18:10:23 +0000

Excellent post - excellent comments.

In response to: the FUBAR is killing me

Mickey Bloody Mouse [Visitor] — Mon, 12 Mar 2007 20:15:29 +0000

What I hate are people who, though possibly brilliant, only ever have the courage to be this way on the internet, hiding behind a screen and sometimes thousands of miles of distance. Some people need a good smack, and they know they're not going to get it from a mailing list, so they self-indulgently engage in abuse, knowing there are no consequences for it. Cowards.

The kind of attitude just doesn't cut it in a professional environment. I think it just annoys me that people feel they can be abusive because they don't have to deal with the consequences online.

Courtesy, measuring your words, and so on, are positive attributes to cultivate because they make the overall process of human interaction smoother. Being nice when you don't want to be may not serve your selfish excesses but it does serve the overall community, project, or business, and that's what's supposed to matter.

And yes, it takes significant effort, restraint, and diplomacy, and it is hard sometimes.

But when the time comes that you screw up, you'll be glad when someone else chooses their words very carefully. It's one of the most important facets of "professionalism."

As a mercurial, whiny, quick-to-anger jerk myself, I am more than familiar with how hard it can be to restrain oneself, but I really do make an effort.

As for Torvalds, well, I wonder if he got away with his attitude at Transmeta the way he gets away with it online. I wouldn't want to work with him.

The bigger the bark, the smaller the dog. I've met one or two people IRL who were bastards online, and had the courage to be bastards in real life, but these are rare exceptions.

Abuse in a collaborative environment serves no purpose other than a masturbatory one, and it has a significant price, as have seen in the events of the last few days.

There are way better ways to motivate and influence people. The debate ends when it gets abusive, because it's no longer about debate, it's about self-defense.

Defensiveness adds massive noise to whatever signal there was, and this is why flamewars get so tediously long, and wind up being fairly content-free.

In response to: the FUBAR is killing me

az [Visitor] — Sat, 02 Dec 2006 03:28:04 +0000

I am of the opinion that people who quit because of abrasion with other highly competent people should not have been with the project in the first place. That is not to say they can't be beneficial, it's just that their instability (lack of a thick skin, if you will) is itself detrimental to the project.

Gentoo, and many other successful projects I respect the most, did not get where they are by being touchy-feely. They got there via technical expertise, an open development model, leadership, focus, and commitment. None of those qualities is mutually exclusive with voicing your opinion in an abrasive manner.

Gentoo is the most flexible OS distribution ever, which makes the solution to being in conflict with a developer fairly clear: fork the package, ensure technical superiority, present your work, and let the people decide. I believe that's what ciaranm is doing, and quite frankly despite all his abrasiveness I respect him for that.

Organizational issues are harder, but that's another discussion centered more around finding people who are both very technically competent and are willing to assume leadership. Believe it or not, if ciaranm was willing to take the position of a "benevolent dictator", I'd support him. Why? Because he's highly competent, likely to lead by example, and likely to attract other people who thrive in an abrasive, technocrat environment. If you follow the kernel development community, it's just like that, with Linus' character not that far from e.g. ciaranm's.

In response to: the FUBAR is killing me

kojiro [Visitor] — Fri, 01 Dec 2006 16:42:49 +0000

Wholehearted *nod*

In response to: the FUBAR is killing me

C.M [Visitor] — Fri, 01 Dec 2006 15:02:46 +0000

Great slides on the subject:
http://www.red-bean.com/dav/presentations/Poisonous-people.pdf

In response to: the FUBAR is killing me

C.M [Visitor] — Fri, 01 Dec 2006 13:08:48 +0000

Well said, I totally agree with you and the comments above.
/C.M

In response to: the FUBAR is killing me

Mike Arthur [Visitor] — Fri, 01 Dec 2006 11:56:21 +0000

Great post, Josh. I completely agree. I realise that we live in a world where its every man for himself, but surely people must realise that in a group project like this, devs leave, we lose manpower and everyone suffers.

Good job on calling people out. Their behaviour has earned it. I also ask, like Richard above me, why can't these people be warned or sacked, if they are being so disruptive and trolling?

In response to: the FUBAR is killing me

Only a user [Visitor] — Fri, 01 Dec 2006 09:11:40 +0000

Hi,

perhaps you should add a "social skills" section to your
gentoo developers quiz. As an
outsider it seems to me that there
are several developers around which
lack these skills.

And better:
To sack developers which cause others to leave the community by
their rude behaviour.

Book them once and sack them after
the second yellow card.

As a user I hope that gentoo is
able to recover from all this
trouble. Because it is in my
opinion still the best distribution
around. And no, I am am not a techie.

I only enjoy updating my system
every now and then with out
big trouble.

Regards,
Richard