Wolf Giesen - Latest comments on Just how "difficult" is Gentoo?

In response to: Just how "difficult" is Gentoo?

Branko Badrljica [Visitor] — Wed, 09 Aug 2006 11:45:22 +0000

I have tried distcc, but got burned and dropped it.

It worked if you had _exactly_ the same machines with the same libraries etc.

Once there was disparity betwwen them, distcc would produce bad results.

It could even be a simple case of not emerge-uDp ing glibc on all machines at the same moment.

These problems might be fixed by now, but I'm not eager to try again. My Opterons are quite capable of doing this alone, so there is no problem, while all slower machines are alone- I don't have more similar machines on-line to make a group.

Mixing dissimilar (32/64 bit) machines in the distcc group seems like a bad idea.
Sure, it should work in theory, but this is Gentoo and too many things could go wrong...

In response to: Just how "difficult" is Gentoo?

Greg [Visitor] — Wed, 09 Aug 2006 08:39:08 +0000

Branko,

Four days for compilation is not that surprising in my experience. I have an older Pentium 4 1.5GHz Dell Dimension 8100 (without hyperthreading) that used to house Windows Me. I have been running Gentoo now on this machine for the past three-four years. Everytime there is a major upgrade whether it be Gnome or X11, several days of compilation have been the rule. I suspect it would be much faster with a more modern processor. I will be replacing this machine with a new Intel Core Duo Extreme machine with a 2.9 GHz processor. I will try a Gentoo install on it when it arrives. I hope I get a significant speed up in compilation. One other thing that may help is distributed compilation if you have another computer handy. I have read about it but have never tried it. I am thinking of installing Puppy Linux on the older machine to keep it usable.

In response to: Just how "difficult" is Gentoo?

Roger Binns [Visitor] — Wed, 09 Aug 2006 03:26:18 +0000

Something Microsoft does in their installers (eg for Exchange) is present it as an HTML page and put checkboxes next to the items you need to do. You check them as you do each item. It doesn't enforce that they have to be checked (some Javascript could do that). It may be worthwhle doing something similar for the HTML install guide.

In response to: Just how "difficult" is Gentoo?

Branko Badrljica [Visitor] — Wed, 09 Aug 2006 00:37:24 +0000

Re: 2006.0 and installer:

I know one can stil do it old way, but how to do this is not obvious. Stages are somewhere else ( IIRC stage3 is autogenerated from packages on CD), documentation is somewhere else etc. And there is no README on obvious place for this, explaining the changes and new rules...

What good is some functionality, even _IF_ it works, when it isn't appropriately documented ?

As it is, 2006.0 is done with new installers in mind, with distant possibility of manual install, as if the new installers ( curses and gui) are tested, reliable, sure thing.

But they are far from it. I have had installer croak because it couldn't mount the partitions it created and formated itself ! Not even with default settings !

I have tried it on:

-Dual Opteron -64 bit Gentoo
-P4
-P4M in toshiba laptop
-AMD Athlon XP (2700 ?) and Sempron
-IIRC also VIA EPIA M10000 (C3 on 1GHz)

I couldn't _NEVER_ complete the (GUI or curses ) install, on none of the machines above, even with default settings.

Funny part is, after 2006.0 came out there were many "BRAVO!!! It works 100.000%" posts and practically no critical or warning feedback. Almost like just about everyone else using Gentoo lives in another universe-until you talk "in flesh" with other Linux users on the matter of "Why not Gentoo ?" and realise you are not alone, far from it...

BTW: One of my machines with Gentoo( P4- 1.6 GHz@1.8 GHz) wasn't used for maybe a bit under a year, so when I found a new use for it, I decided it's time for an update...

It's emerging stuff for a _FOURTH_DAY_ now. Sure, its speed is not exactly stellar, and there were quite a few packages, and i decided to recompile everything with gcc-4.1.1 and optionally ( where 4.1.1 croakes) with 3.4.6, but FOUR DAYS ? ;o/

With EPIA and similar machines, situation is even worse. If one is serious about using this as a desktop machine, he should either:

- compile SW for it on some fast machine
- have one EPIA doing just emerging of everything new and then "steal" finished binpkgs from "real-work" machines
-stay with old versions of programs for long time and never do emerge -uD world
- use poor EPIA just for compiling stuff without the time to really use it...

In response to: Just how "difficult" is Gentoo?

Branko Badrljica [Visitor] — Tue, 08 Aug 2006 23:15:25 +0000

@Greg:

I ewasn't looking for sympathy, I was offering feedback, as I have understood, that was the OP was asking about. This means ignoring for the moment the things that rock and exposing and focusing on the the things that suck...

Obviously, there are good things in Gentoo, or I wouldn't be using it exclusively for last few years. But this thread is about exposing difficulties with using Gentoo.

Is Gentoo difficult to use ? It _SURE_ can be, and it is from time to time. No way around that. For me, it is still head and shoulders above anything else in Linux world, but that does not make life with it any easier.

In response to: Just how "difficult" is Gentoo?

Greg [Visitor] — Tue, 08 Aug 2006 21:07:07 +0000

@frilled, RE:VMware

Judging the quality of the installer based on an installation within VMware is a bit like cheating. If the hardware and software already work on the machine on which you are running vmware, then they will almost certainly work within your virtual machine regardless of the distribution. With that said, my guess is the Graphical installer will hang at some point and then fail even within vmware. I actually think the graphical installer is a praiseworthy goal, but right now it is broken.

In response to: Just how "difficult" is Gentoo?

Greg [Visitor] — Tue, 08 Aug 2006 20:56:37 +0000

@Branko:

Unfortunately, you are not going to get much sympathy or objectivity here. Most everyone who will happen upon this site will already be running Gentoo, and will be a fan. I actually agree with your main thrust that Portage, for all its usefulness, does frequently result in borked systems. It may not be portage per se, but the ebuilds. This occurs even when upgrading packages marked stable. I have learned my lesson to stay clear of the packages marked testing-->nothing but heartache in that path. The only testing package I run is the kernel (ck-sources).

With regard to the 2006.0 installer, I also have not gotten the graphical installer to work for me. However, you are mistaken about there not being a stage 3. There is. Also, if you, don't want to work with GUI installer you can just open a terminal and do a "killall gdm". This will take you to the "classic" Gentoo cli. Gentoo remains fun for tinkering, and I suppose if you are a developer Gentoo allows you to very precisely control the libraries and othe packages on your system. Personally, the knowledge I have gained about my hardware has made my Gentoo experience worthwhile.

In response to: Just how "difficult" is Gentoo?

Branko Badrljica [Visitor] — Tue, 08 Aug 2006 08:13:44 +0000

@frilled:

I see you're still not past the stage of denial. Not good against any addiction ;o)